Minutes
Gustavus Land Legacy
April 21, 2003
Salmon River Park, 4/21/03, 7 p.m.
Present: TNC staff: Rob Bosworth, Randy Hagenstein, Michael Paulson – TNC Portland, Paul – TNC Seattle. Others: Hank Lentfer, Nate Borson, Jim Mackovjak, Wayne Howell, Heidi Robichaud, Lynne Morrow, Dave Lesh, Greg Streveler, Sean Anna, Kezia Graham, Karen Platt, Blair Awbrey, Kim Ney, Anya Meier, George Jensen, Tom McCabe, Lynne Jensen, Kim Heacox, Melanie Heacox, Rusty Yerxa, Janene Driscoll, Judy Brakel, Swarupa Toth, Julie Williams, Nat Drumheller, Phoebe Vanselow, Meadow Brook, Carol Dejka, Karen Taylor
Rob – here to speak on status of land project, answer questions
Goal to raise 3-3.5 million dollars; successfully got $1 million from USFWS, should propel us to other money-raising successes.
Still haven’t recovered the money, Knowles put it in F&G budget, Murkowski took it out of the budget, now it sounds like things are going to move ahead and we’ll receive the receipt authority Albert Kookesh has been extremely helpful, as has Georgiana Lincoln
Project would need to be in the capital budget, and it hasn’t been worked on yet in this session, not until mid-May will we know whether F&G has authority to receive funds.
Once they have the authority, move ahead with land appraisal, TNC pledged $250,000 matching funds, Ducks Unlimited $25,000, TNC donor $100,000, another donor $70,000. Overall, we've raised about $1.5 million.
Little over half way to goal, depending on appraisal, could get more land for less money because of economy.
Hank-AK Outdoor Council – pro-hunting/pro-access; would help if they would endorse this project; with Greg’s help and Hank’s work, and the council is likely to send letters of support to legislator; willing to endorse because it provides access.
Rob - Sequence of purchasing, for second application of $1 million, would like to demonstrate we’ve put the money to good use; but also good reasons to continue raising money for phase 2, land east of the Good River. Two options – take the money and close the Dude Creek deal or hold the money and try to close as much as possible, including east of the good river.
Applied for Dude Creek lands first because that was the first parcel in the purchase agreement and was eligible for the USFWS grant because it was adjacent to the Dude Creek Critical Habitat Area.
Even if we want to buy phase one immediately, still have issues of accreted lands and land assessment, both of which are in hands of MHLT; even if we told them we wanted to buy now, would take time.
Randy negotiated extension to 3/04 for purchase agreement
Melanie – sunset on purchase agreement?
Randy – doesn’t think so (at least not for a few years); probably should move quickly with uncertainty of administration.
Meadow – status of discussion between MHLT and DNR about accreted lands?
Randy – MHLT had a legal opinion put together, couple cases provided precedent, title to accreted lands in this case would go to upland land owner, DNR not necessarily convinced it is the correct reading of the law; man on TNC Anchorage staff recently with experience in this area, pretty clear title would go to upland owner; supposed to be dealt with last Nov/Dec, and with transition of government, it’s been on the backburner; top priority with MHLT to get that straightened out because can’t go on with appraisal until we know; should know in the next 2-3 months.
Rob – MHLT extremely helpful and supportive on politics of $1 million grant, really gone the extra mile on our behalf
Rob received question in Juneau about whether TNC would hold onto the property or possibly sell in the future; assures us there are a number of reasons selling wouldn’t happen
- TNC wouldn’t be around still if they didn’t stick to their agreements
- Also, the basis on which we’ve received some funds, they must be used for the purposes they were granted. If the land was put to some use other than what the money was intended to be used for, FWS would be asking for their money back; has happened before (not with TNC)
Nat – option raised at GCA about community owning land/TNC transferring ownership
Rob – scenario presented to him would be a possibility of TNC retaining a conservation easement and ownership given to city; started talking about it a month ago; Gustavus isn’t yet a city, but interested in discussing this idea.
Rusty – conservation easements would remain in force if transferred to government?
Randy – definitely, TNC wants to ensure biological values that TNC, donors, and Gustavus’ money are buying are protected
Rob – another option, new city of Gustavus would have land protection ordinances
Lynne – would the city be held to the same standards for the FWS money?
Rob – definitely
Melanie – consensus about city ownership?
Hank – only come up in the last month; had discussed expanding the Dude Creek protection area, not likely to happen with current administration; early on, contacted SeaLTrust and others as potential owners; viable option are state, TNC, and city of Gustavus
Jim – if the goal is to protect this land, why not let TNC administer the lands when all we would do would have land that had to be protected?
Nat – some local of distrust of TNC
Jim – also issue of liability
Nat – conservancy have a preference?
Rob - Arrangement that was compatible for community as long as basic purposes for which the land was protected remained in place; interests recognized with conservation easement, but day-to-day management (trail placement, areas needing special protection) regardless of ownership, community needs to have a strong voice regardless of whether they own it.
Heidi – community would have a voice if land would ever transfer title?
Rob – definitely
Heidi – what situations would cause this?
Michael - Bankruptcy
Heidi - What other reasons would cause it?
Michael - Key is conservation values of the land
Lynne M. - What about taxation?
Rob – that type of land is generally tax-free; TNC is tax exempt on a case-by-case basis; they would pay the tax
Randy – from TNC perspective, flexible about how to achieve conservation of the land; sounds like we need a longer discussion about whether the community is interested in ownership and other options. How do we take those next steps to have a dialogue?
Rusty – Examples of how this has worked in other areas? heard of one in Maine
Randy – TNC has done a lot of work acquiring land on behalf of federal, state, and local governments; helped establish land trusts and pre-existing land trusts that now have title to a number of the properties; example in Maine had a diverse mix of solutions to put together a really big, expensive project while being sensitive to the towns in northern Maine; accomplished mission while being responsive to local economic needs
Kim – how long have conservation easements been around?
Randy - Conservation Easement act in late 80s/early 90s in Alaska,
Paul – early 1950s nationwide
Michael – conservation easements have been overturned
Randy – and they’ve also been upheld
Heidi – typical city planning commission have authority to change conservation easement language?
Randy – most easements have language about conditions under which the easement could be undone; condemnation powers of local government
Meadow – familiar with municipalities condemning land; question to ask community regional affairs office to see if second-class city could
Heidi – or borough
Lynne – could they touch the land if TNC held it?
Randy – it depends on whether those powers of condemnation would extend beyond the conservation easement; depends on the power of second-class/borough; condemnation is usually for specific purposes and are not broad in nature (widening a road, power line, etc.), can’t take thousands of acres
Heidi – seems like condemnation might allow selling?
Randy – would still be subject to an easement
Rob – could happen on any TNC lands, pretty unusual; willing to start discussion about ownership; not too soon to begin thinking about management plan; there’s a draft land management agreement between community and TNC, could start work on that,
Hank - TNC just received $20,000 from FWS to do vegetation mapping; state did Dude Creek protected area and beyond into the Dude Creek parcel with extra money; TNC will do mapping of other parcels
Rob – trying to get baseline understanding, what’s on the ground now
Hank – TNC is one of the only organizations that could have gotten us this far along; amazingly flexible; appreciates the skepticism of locals, but having worked with TNC, seems like they’re the best
Meadow – going to apply to another $1 million grant under same scenario through FWS?
Hank – yes, grant app due 6/1
Rob – hoping receipt/use of first bunch of money will help with application
Rusty – TNC has other projects in SE?
Randy – option on land near Petersburg, funded entirely with land & conservation money, state not involved; option on slough in Stikine Delta, also with L&C dollars hopefully; funding partner for purchase of Univ. property in Soapstone Cove; funded a deal on Mackovy Island; in the process of selling to USFS to Favorite Bay that will go into Monument
Rusty – Petersburg is also MHLT?
Randy – yes; MHLT has put together a package; from a funding perspective the Gustavus lands are problematic because not within NPS or USFS lands, so can’t get federal money, but is attractive because it conceptually opens more conservation options with different kinds of partnerships
Thanks to Nat, Phoebe, Karen with Saturday hikes, Judy, Blair
Nate – anecdote about hills around where he grew up, special areas being protected; community will be discussing goals for ownership in the next few months. Issues surrounding ownership appear to include taxation, liability, condemnation.
Rusty – people should know TNC has been around a long time,
Randy – since early 1950s, started with a group of people getting together to raise money to protect land they held dear
Greg – thanked Randy for his support, thanked Meadow
Meadow – thanked Greg
Adjourned 8:40pm
Phoebe Vanselow